THE WAR BABIES OF WORLAND:
ORAL HISTORIES FROM THE CLASS OF 1960
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CAROL WOODHAMS DAY
Extended conversation after videotaping Interviewers: Joyce Taylor Spence & Cathy Healy Proofreaders: Peggy Steele Porter October 7, 2022 |
This transcript expands from the video due to additional conversations.
Hi Carol! This is Joyce Taylor Spence. I'm interviewing you today, and welcome and thank you for adding to the oral history collection of the Washakie County Historical Museum and Cultural Center.
We have two goals here today. One is to record the history of the graduating class of 1960, and what it was like to grow up in Worland, Wyoming between the years directly before the second world war and to the time when we graduated in 1960. The second purpose is to give insight into potential future listeners to this history or watchers of this history, about how growing up in Worland might have affected our adult life.
So, to get started, Carol, we have two questions that everyone gets asked, and then there are a series of other questions that we might get into that might have particular meaning for you.
Carol Jean Woodhams Day: Okay.
Joyce: The first question is your name, your full name, and what you might have been called while you were in school.
Carol: Carol Jean Woodhams Day, and I really didn't have any nicknames. I was just called Carol.
We have two goals here today. One is to record the history of the graduating class of 1960, and what it was like to grow up in Worland, Wyoming between the years directly before the second world war and to the time when we graduated in 1960. The second purpose is to give insight into potential future listeners to this history or watchers of this history, about how growing up in Worland might have affected our adult life.
So, to get started, Carol, we have two questions that everyone gets asked, and then there are a series of other questions that we might get into that might have particular meaning for you.
Carol Jean Woodhams Day: Okay.
Joyce: The first question is your name, your full name, and what you might have been called while you were in school.
Carol: Carol Jean Woodhams Day, and I really didn't have any nicknames. I was just called Carol.
THE WOODHAMS MOVED TO WORLAND IN 1941
Joyce: Carol, how did your family happen to get to Worland?
Carol: My folks were from Williston, North Dakota. My dad had applied at the newspaper, the Northern Wyoming Daily News. He worked as a pressman printer. The job paid $35 a week. My mother clipped out the ad and put it in a scrapbook.
Joyce: And then they moved?
Carol: Yes, he applied for the job here, and he got it, and he moved here in November of 1941. Mom was still working as an accountant. She wanted to finish doing her work, you know, helping her employer out. So she wasn’t going to come until December 24th. So then, of course, December 7th and Pearl Harbor and then everybody in her family was having a fit and they didn’t want mom to move to Worland because she was seven-and-a-half months pregnant with me, but she said, “No, I'm going to Worland. I've already sent the furniture, so I'm going,” and they said,” But what if he gets drafted?” and she said, “I'm going.” So, she came, and Dad did not get drafted because he had flat feet, so that's how we ended up here in Worland.
Joyce: So, you were born in Worland?
Carol: Yes, I was born at the hospital here. At that time, I think the mothers had to stay in the hospital for two weeks after they had a baby. Now you don't even stay in a day, practically.
Joyce: Carol, how did your family happen to get to Worland?
Carol: My folks were from Williston, North Dakota. My dad had applied at the newspaper, the Northern Wyoming Daily News. He worked as a pressman printer. The job paid $35 a week. My mother clipped out the ad and put it in a scrapbook.
Joyce: And then they moved?
Carol: Yes, he applied for the job here, and he got it, and he moved here in November of 1941. Mom was still working as an accountant. She wanted to finish doing her work, you know, helping her employer out. So she wasn’t going to come until December 24th. So then, of course, December 7th and Pearl Harbor and then everybody in her family was having a fit and they didn’t want mom to move to Worland because she was seven-and-a-half months pregnant with me, but she said, “No, I'm going to Worland. I've already sent the furniture, so I'm going,” and they said,” But what if he gets drafted?” and she said, “I'm going.” So, she came, and Dad did not get drafted because he had flat feet, so that's how we ended up here in Worland.
Joyce: So, you were born in Worland?
Carol: Yes, I was born at the hospital here. At that time, I think the mothers had to stay in the hospital for two weeks after they had a baby. Now you don't even stay in a day, practically.
CHILDHOOD: SIGHTS, SOUNDS, SMELLS
Joyce: Where did you all live in Worland from your first memories?
Carol: We lived in the Bower Apartments on North Thirteenth Street, behind the Methodist Church. We lived there until I was a freshman, and then we moved to a house on South Thirteenth and Washakie.
Joyce: As you think about these places you lived, what kind of memories do you have as you remember all of those years?
Always Outside: Girls Played Jacks and Hopscotch, Boys Played Baseball
Carol: Because we had so many kids in the neighborhood, we played all the time, and I don't think we were hardly ever in the house. We played jacks, hopscotch, jump rope, baseball in the street, roller skated and rode our bikes. In the winter, we ice skated and sledded. When we were in the house, we played paper dolls and dolls, board games like checkers, something with marbles, and listened to the radio and phonograph. We had 78 rpm records. A lot of them had stories, like Sambo and Dumbo. I loved going to the library in the basement of the courthouse. I read the Bobbsey Twins, Nancy Drew, the Hardy Boys – it didn’t matter, I read everything.
Cathy: In the fall, did you rake leaves and design houses like blueprint; and then rake them into piles and jump in them and put the leaves in the alley and roast marshmallows?
Carol: I don’t remember that, but I do remember going on hayrides with a church group or 4-H.
We had trees, but what I remember is in the summer they had army worms – some kind of worms or caterpillars – that would drop off the trees on us. We didn’t like walking under trees! I guess they didn’t spray in those days.
We had so many kids that lived around that neighborhood, from North 12th and Robertson to 15th and Robertson. There must have been a lot of houses for rent there because people seemed to stay there for a while and then build a house, most of them went south toward Washakie Avenue.
Sharon Smith [a classmate] and the Roys lived across the street in houses at one time. [Larry Roy was a few years younger.] The Nelsons also lived down there, the Swans had lived there at one time [Gayle Swan was a classmate] and the LaFluers had lived there. [Jimmy LaFluer was a classmate] and “Pappy” Lowe [Ag teacher]. He had two daughters and they just lived down the street. The Averetts didn't live that far away [Rex was a classmate] and then Judy Schlothauer [a classmate] lived a couple of blocks down on Robertson. Also, there were Porters [Tom was a classmate] and Dean Frederick [another classmate] but I didn't really run around with them. One of our teachers, Mrs. Esther Pickard, and her daughter Ardis lived on that street too. [Ardis, known as Bunny, was a year ahead of us.]
There were just kids, kids, kids everywhere, and always somebody to play with.
Joyce: Where did you all live in Worland from your first memories?
Carol: We lived in the Bower Apartments on North Thirteenth Street, behind the Methodist Church. We lived there until I was a freshman, and then we moved to a house on South Thirteenth and Washakie.
Joyce: As you think about these places you lived, what kind of memories do you have as you remember all of those years?
Always Outside: Girls Played Jacks and Hopscotch, Boys Played Baseball
Carol: Because we had so many kids in the neighborhood, we played all the time, and I don't think we were hardly ever in the house. We played jacks, hopscotch, jump rope, baseball in the street, roller skated and rode our bikes. In the winter, we ice skated and sledded. When we were in the house, we played paper dolls and dolls, board games like checkers, something with marbles, and listened to the radio and phonograph. We had 78 rpm records. A lot of them had stories, like Sambo and Dumbo. I loved going to the library in the basement of the courthouse. I read the Bobbsey Twins, Nancy Drew, the Hardy Boys – it didn’t matter, I read everything.
Cathy: In the fall, did you rake leaves and design houses like blueprint; and then rake them into piles and jump in them and put the leaves in the alley and roast marshmallows?
Carol: I don’t remember that, but I do remember going on hayrides with a church group or 4-H.
We had trees, but what I remember is in the summer they had army worms – some kind of worms or caterpillars – that would drop off the trees on us. We didn’t like walking under trees! I guess they didn’t spray in those days.
We had so many kids that lived around that neighborhood, from North 12th and Robertson to 15th and Robertson. There must have been a lot of houses for rent there because people seemed to stay there for a while and then build a house, most of them went south toward Washakie Avenue.
Sharon Smith [a classmate] and the Roys lived across the street in houses at one time. [Larry Roy was a few years younger.] The Nelsons also lived down there, the Swans had lived there at one time [Gayle Swan was a classmate] and the LaFluers had lived there. [Jimmy LaFluer was a classmate] and “Pappy” Lowe [Ag teacher]. He had two daughters and they just lived down the street. The Averetts didn't live that far away [Rex was a classmate] and then Judy Schlothauer [a classmate] lived a couple of blocks down on Robertson. Also, there were Porters [Tom was a classmate] and Dean Frederick [another classmate] but I didn't really run around with them. One of our teachers, Mrs. Esther Pickard, and her daughter Ardis lived on that street too. [Ardis, known as Bunny, was a year ahead of us.]
There were just kids, kids, kids everywhere, and always somebody to play with.
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: 1947-1954
Joyce: Oh, that's a nice memory. What do you remember about you and all these kids in school?
Carol: I think we probably just knew them all when we were younger. We stayed friends with so many of them over the years. I think our class was very close, we were friends with everybody. That was the beginning of our lifelong friendships.
Joyce: Do you remember special teachers when you all were in elementary school?
Carol: Not really. Not anyone who really made an impression on me.
Always in Dresses, and Played in the Dirt Anyway
When we were in elementary school, you know the girls, all through school, always wore dresses, and the only time we wore pants was when we went to the mountains. At the grade school, we had gravel, not pavement. We’d make pretend houses in the gravel, scrape, scrape with your hands. This is the kitchen; this is the living room. We played in the dirt all the time with our hands. And I am going, “Wow!” Nowadays, mothers would have a fit because we never washed our hands, we were probably very unsanitary.
One of the things that I did when I was in elementary school, I had to be the dumb one that stuck my tongue on the slide in the wintertime. Which wasn't too smart.
Joyce: Now, that is a significant memory! What else do you remember about your childhood as you turned adolescent and became interested in boys?
Carol: It was more friends then, you know, than a boyfriend, girlfriend, type of thing.
Joyce: Did you have a best friend?
Carol: Girls or boys?
Joyce: Either one.
Carol: Yes. Judy Schlothaeur and I played with dolls forever until she moved to Circle Road. But we played quite a bit together, and Sharon Smith lived across the street. I don't know if they were my best friends in junior high. I was friends with everybody.
Joyce: Oh, that's a nice memory. What do you remember about you and all these kids in school?
Carol: I think we probably just knew them all when we were younger. We stayed friends with so many of them over the years. I think our class was very close, we were friends with everybody. That was the beginning of our lifelong friendships.
Joyce: Do you remember special teachers when you all were in elementary school?
Carol: Not really. Not anyone who really made an impression on me.
Always in Dresses, and Played in the Dirt Anyway
When we were in elementary school, you know the girls, all through school, always wore dresses, and the only time we wore pants was when we went to the mountains. At the grade school, we had gravel, not pavement. We’d make pretend houses in the gravel, scrape, scrape with your hands. This is the kitchen; this is the living room. We played in the dirt all the time with our hands. And I am going, “Wow!” Nowadays, mothers would have a fit because we never washed our hands, we were probably very unsanitary.
One of the things that I did when I was in elementary school, I had to be the dumb one that stuck my tongue on the slide in the wintertime. Which wasn't too smart.
Joyce: Now, that is a significant memory! What else do you remember about your childhood as you turned adolescent and became interested in boys?
Carol: It was more friends then, you know, than a boyfriend, girlfriend, type of thing.
Joyce: Did you have a best friend?
Carol: Girls or boys?
Joyce: Either one.
Carol: Yes. Judy Schlothaeur and I played with dolls forever until she moved to Circle Road. But we played quite a bit together, and Sharon Smith lived across the street. I don't know if they were my best friends in junior high. I was friends with everybody.
FAMILY ACTIVITIES: HUNT, FISH, YELLOWSTONE
Joyce: What sort of things did your family do together?
Carol: My dad loved to hunt and fish. We ate a lot of deer, elk, pheasant and trout. My dad would skin it out and have the meat processed at the locker plant. Most people didn’t have separate freezers and you could rent a freezer space down there at the locker plant.
We spent a lot of time in the mountains, fishing and picnicking. We would take part of our vacations in North Dakota visiting family, but then we also would go to Yellowstone, and we stayed at Fishing Bridge in the little cabins in the back. We did that quite a few different times. At that time, you saw bears all the time, so that was fun and interesting.
My sister Kay and I roamed around. We’d go from the cabin up to the lodge, walk down to the lake. We’d walk from our cabin to the next and look around to see if there were any bears and if there weren’t, we’d walk to the next one. Parents didn’t worry about their kids wandering around by themselves. Not like nowadays.
Joyce: Do you have brothers or sisters?
Carol: I had two sisters, Kay and Patty. Kay has passed away [due to Covid complications]. She was three years younger than I was, then Patty was eight years younger than I am.
Because Sister Kay Had Rheumatic Fever, She Got to Met Roy Rogers
Joyce: So, you all were a family of five. What do you remember about you and your siblings?
Carol: Well, we played really well together. When Kay was five, she ended up having rheumatic fever, and she was in the Children's Hospital in Denver for probably over a month, and Patty was just a baby. You didn't think about it at the time, but mom was torn because she had to stay home, and Kay was down there at the hospital by herself a lot. At that time, I don't think you were able to afford to stay in motels. When she was in the children's hospital, Roy Rogers
[Western movie star] came and she had her picture taken with him, and it was in the Denver Post.
Joyce: It sounds like you had a wonderful family.
Joyce: What sort of things did your family do together?
Carol: My dad loved to hunt and fish. We ate a lot of deer, elk, pheasant and trout. My dad would skin it out and have the meat processed at the locker plant. Most people didn’t have separate freezers and you could rent a freezer space down there at the locker plant.
We spent a lot of time in the mountains, fishing and picnicking. We would take part of our vacations in North Dakota visiting family, but then we also would go to Yellowstone, and we stayed at Fishing Bridge in the little cabins in the back. We did that quite a few different times. At that time, you saw bears all the time, so that was fun and interesting.
My sister Kay and I roamed around. We’d go from the cabin up to the lodge, walk down to the lake. We’d walk from our cabin to the next and look around to see if there were any bears and if there weren’t, we’d walk to the next one. Parents didn’t worry about their kids wandering around by themselves. Not like nowadays.
Joyce: Do you have brothers or sisters?
Carol: I had two sisters, Kay and Patty. Kay has passed away [due to Covid complications]. She was three years younger than I was, then Patty was eight years younger than I am.
Because Sister Kay Had Rheumatic Fever, She Got to Met Roy Rogers
Joyce: So, you all were a family of five. What do you remember about you and your siblings?
Carol: Well, we played really well together. When Kay was five, she ended up having rheumatic fever, and she was in the Children's Hospital in Denver for probably over a month, and Patty was just a baby. You didn't think about it at the time, but mom was torn because she had to stay home, and Kay was down there at the hospital by herself a lot. At that time, I don't think you were able to afford to stay in motels. When she was in the children's hospital, Roy Rogers
[Western movie star] came and she had her picture taken with him, and it was in the Denver Post.
Joyce: It sounds like you had a wonderful family.
WORLAND HIGH SCHOOL: 1956-1960
Joyce: I remember when I moved to Worland my junior year in high school, you were one of the first people that I met, and I loved being your friend. What do you remember about our high school years?
Carol: I started working at the telephone office when I was fifteen, so a lot of the time I was working after school and on weekends. But we still had time to do all the other fun things. I remember the Prom. We just really decorated for the Proms. And we loved the parades, and each class made a float. One time we made a big swan – it was huge, it took up a whole flatbed – they all did! You’d build the frame and cover it with chicken wire and then stuff the holes with Kleenex or pieces of colored crepe paper. We worked our butts off. We all had a good time.
Now most of the time, the floats are on a short bed truck, and just not like what we did.
We’d listen to the popular songs on the radio, KOMA Oklahoma City, and I’d keep a list of the top twenty. The list changed every week. And then I’d watch American Bandstand on TV after school. I remember Jim Storer would ask, “What was the top song this week?”
I was in a lot of different things when I was in school, like 4-H, Girl Scouts, band, the church choir, and the church youth group. In 4-H, I took cooking, and sewing. After graduating from high school, I married [Jim Day, brother of Bill Day, our classmate] and moved away. When Jim and I came back, I started sewing and cooking in the fair here, just like I did when I was in 4-H. And my mother always took flowers, so I take flowers. I take individual flowers like roses,
petunias and verbena. There’s a list of flowers and if you have them, you take them. Seems like purples do the best here.
Now my granddaughter and my great-granddaughter – they live here too – and have started taking things to the fair. So that was kind of a tradition that went on down the line.
Joyce: I remember when I moved to Worland my junior year in high school, you were one of the first people that I met, and I loved being your friend. What do you remember about our high school years?
Carol: I started working at the telephone office when I was fifteen, so a lot of the time I was working after school and on weekends. But we still had time to do all the other fun things. I remember the Prom. We just really decorated for the Proms. And we loved the parades, and each class made a float. One time we made a big swan – it was huge, it took up a whole flatbed – they all did! You’d build the frame and cover it with chicken wire and then stuff the holes with Kleenex or pieces of colored crepe paper. We worked our butts off. We all had a good time.
Now most of the time, the floats are on a short bed truck, and just not like what we did.
We’d listen to the popular songs on the radio, KOMA Oklahoma City, and I’d keep a list of the top twenty. The list changed every week. And then I’d watch American Bandstand on TV after school. I remember Jim Storer would ask, “What was the top song this week?”
I was in a lot of different things when I was in school, like 4-H, Girl Scouts, band, the church choir, and the church youth group. In 4-H, I took cooking, and sewing. After graduating from high school, I married [Jim Day, brother of Bill Day, our classmate] and moved away. When Jim and I came back, I started sewing and cooking in the fair here, just like I did when I was in 4-H. And my mother always took flowers, so I take flowers. I take individual flowers like roses,
petunias and verbena. There’s a list of flowers and if you have them, you take them. Seems like purples do the best here.
Now my granddaughter and my great-granddaughter – they live here too – and have started taking things to the fair. So that was kind of a tradition that went on down the line.
RETURN TO WORLAND FROM CALIFORNIA
Joyce: That is wonderful. Is there anything else about growing up in Worland, and coming back to Worland to live that you would like to talk about? What do you think is special about that community?
Carol: Well, it's a lot different than when we grew up here because there was so much shopping and things to do. I enjoy the quietness and being able to go to the mountains. But then sometimes it's kind of boring for me right now.
Joyce: So, it sounds like part of what you're saying is just the fact that the economy has changed so that Worland is not as big or as populated as it once was. Is that correct?
Carol: Well, it's still as populated; there are a lot of younger people moving in. But the shopping has changed. The closest place to shop, even Walmart, is an hour and a half away. And shopping centers like Billings or Casper are almost three hours away. That makes it harder when you're a senior. I don't like to do everything online.
Joyce: That is wonderful. Is there anything else about growing up in Worland, and coming back to Worland to live that you would like to talk about? What do you think is special about that community?
Carol: Well, it's a lot different than when we grew up here because there was so much shopping and things to do. I enjoy the quietness and being able to go to the mountains. But then sometimes it's kind of boring for me right now.
Joyce: So, it sounds like part of what you're saying is just the fact that the economy has changed so that Worland is not as big or as populated as it once was. Is that correct?
Carol: Well, it's still as populated; there are a lot of younger people moving in. But the shopping has changed. The closest place to shop, even Walmart, is an hour and a half away. And shopping centers like Billings or Casper are almost three hours away. That makes it harder when you're a senior. I don't like to do everything online.
WISDOM FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS
Joyce: Carol, is there anything else that you think would be important to say if one of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren were listening to this interview, that you would like to communicate to the young people who might be listening to our stories?
Carol: Worland is a good place to raise kids because the school system's good. They have sports and all kinds of activities.
Joyce: So that would be one of the things you want to communicate is that Worland is a good place to live and to grow up, even though it might be different than it was when you were growing up.
Carol: Right.
Joyce: Carol, is there anything else that you think would be important to say if one of your grandchildren or great-grandchildren were listening to this interview, that you would like to communicate to the young people who might be listening to our stories?
Carol: Worland is a good place to raise kids because the school system's good. They have sports and all kinds of activities.
Joyce: So that would be one of the things you want to communicate is that Worland is a good place to live and to grow up, even though it might be different than it was when you were growing up.
Carol: Right.
PARENTS’ LIFE IN WORLAND
Carol: I had just a couple of little silly tidbits that I found. Mom kept scrapbooks, and she kept a lot of different articles, and one of them was about mom and three other women when they took the first prenatal class at the hospital. And it must have been in 1945 because I didn't remember these ladies’ names, and Patty didn't either.
So, we're assuming, it was like when she was pregnant with Kay. The other lady's names were Mrs. Martin Deeder, Mrs. Emmett McGarvin, and Mrs. Kenneth Bonds. So that was kind of interesting. The first prenatal class.
There were some letters that were written to the folks who had been at the Daily News with dad. One was from Sergeant Elmer Downing, the circulation manager, and Corp. Richard White, editor. They served in North Africa. Mother had all these clippings from the paper. Dr. Humphries, a veterinarian, would write to his wife and she would have some parts published in the paper. They were very interesting.
Carol: I had just a couple of little silly tidbits that I found. Mom kept scrapbooks, and she kept a lot of different articles, and one of them was about mom and three other women when they took the first prenatal class at the hospital. And it must have been in 1945 because I didn't remember these ladies’ names, and Patty didn't either.
So, we're assuming, it was like when she was pregnant with Kay. The other lady's names were Mrs. Martin Deeder, Mrs. Emmett McGarvin, and Mrs. Kenneth Bonds. So that was kind of interesting. The first prenatal class.
There were some letters that were written to the folks who had been at the Daily News with dad. One was from Sergeant Elmer Downing, the circulation manager, and Corp. Richard White, editor. They served in North Africa. Mother had all these clippings from the paper. Dr. Humphries, a veterinarian, would write to his wife and she would have some parts published in the paper. They were very interesting.
YOUTH ACTIVITIES: CAMPS - GIRL SCOUTS, CHURCH, 4-H
Carol: I went to church camp, 4-H camp, and Girl Scout camp. One time I was at the Buffalo Bill Girl Scout camp outside Cody, towards Yellowstone Park. And Edgar Bergen and Charlie put on a show there. He had his daughter Candace there, and she signed my little autograph book. I still have her autograph.
Joyce: Oh, that is so interesting! Thank you for that, Carol. Well, I will turn it over to Cathy Healy at this moment, unless you have something else. We love to listen to your stories, Carol.
Carol: I went to church camp, 4-H camp, and Girl Scout camp. One time I was at the Buffalo Bill Girl Scout camp outside Cody, towards Yellowstone Park. And Edgar Bergen and Charlie put on a show there. He had his daughter Candace there, and she signed my little autograph book. I still have her autograph.
Joyce: Oh, that is so interesting! Thank you for that, Carol. Well, I will turn it over to Cathy Healy at this moment, unless you have something else. We love to listen to your stories, Carol.
MORE INFORMATION ABOUT PREVIOUS STORIES
Cathy Healy: Carol, who was Charlie McCarthy? We know who he was, but kids now don’t, and they really won’t in the future.
Carol: Edgar Bergen had a puppet – Charlie McCarthy.
Cathy: Yeah, that talked. And so, what kind of character was Charlie McCarthy?
Carol: I think he was just a little boy.
Joanne Jeffres: I just want to interject here. I was at that same Girl Scout Camp when Edgar Bergen and Candace came. Charlie McCarthy was a puppet with a wooden head and his puppet friend was Mortimer Snerd. Do you remember that?
Carol: No, I don't remember that part
Joanne: Edgar Bergen was a ventriloquist, and this was very early ventriloquism. And he was on the Ed Sullivan Show several times and had done those things well. He told us that Edgar Bergen and Mortimer Snerd had not been good, and they were in reform school during the summer. Edger made his hand into a fist, draped a handkerchief over it, added lipstick and two eyes below the top of the handkerchief. His thumb area created the moving mouth. This puppet looked like a very old Girl Scout. He then told stories about her camping experiences.
Carol: I don't remember it all. I remember, in the morning we always had to go out, and they put the flag up, and I would look up, and then I fainted one morning –
Cathy: You fainted? How did you come to?
Carol: It must have been right away, but it was probably due to the altitude and looking up.
Cathy Healy: Carol, who was Charlie McCarthy? We know who he was, but kids now don’t, and they really won’t in the future.
Carol: Edgar Bergen had a puppet – Charlie McCarthy.
Cathy: Yeah, that talked. And so, what kind of character was Charlie McCarthy?
Carol: I think he was just a little boy.
Joanne Jeffres: I just want to interject here. I was at that same Girl Scout Camp when Edgar Bergen and Candace came. Charlie McCarthy was a puppet with a wooden head and his puppet friend was Mortimer Snerd. Do you remember that?
Carol: No, I don't remember that part
Joanne: Edgar Bergen was a ventriloquist, and this was very early ventriloquism. And he was on the Ed Sullivan Show several times and had done those things well. He told us that Edgar Bergen and Mortimer Snerd had not been good, and they were in reform school during the summer. Edger made his hand into a fist, draped a handkerchief over it, added lipstick and two eyes below the top of the handkerchief. His thumb area created the moving mouth. This puppet looked like a very old Girl Scout. He then told stories about her camping experiences.
Carol: I don't remember it all. I remember, in the morning we always had to go out, and they put the flag up, and I would look up, and then I fainted one morning –
Cathy: You fainted? How did you come to?
Carol: It must have been right away, but it was probably due to the altitude and looking up.
YOUTH ACTIVITIES: KIDS GAMES
Cathy: You were talking about playing jacks, and I think you're the only one that's talked about that. Do your granddaughters play jacks?
Carol: I don't know if they have started jacks. They’re playing with hula hoops.
Cathy: What's a hula hoop? Remember, we're talking about people in 2050, who won't know what a hula hoop is.
Carol: Well, it’s a large hoop made out of lightweight plastic, and then you have to wiggle your hips to make it keep going.
Cathy: And so, it goes round and round.
JACKS, JACKS, AND MORE JACKS!
Cathy: It’s so easy for us to visualize games like jacks, but in 2050, will girls even know what jacks are? How do you play jacks? What are jacks?
Carol: I see what you are saying. We had a tiny, rubber-type ball and six jacks. We had to scatter the jacks in front of us with one hand, bounce a ball and pick up one jack and place it in the left hand before the ball bounced again.
Cathy: And it was just a matter of hand-eye coordination where you’d throw out the six Jacks.
Carol: Yes, yes, yes. You’d hold them in your hand and throw them out. Sometimes they'd land close together, so it would be hard to bounce the ball, and pick up one at a time. You know, I said a little, little, tiny rubber type ball.
Cathy: So then, if they were scattered, it would be hard to pick up several at a time.
Carol: And then if you got to six, you had to be pretty fast to try to get your whole hand around all of them.
Cathy: Did they have winners and losers? Did you have scores? Or was it I won three and you, now you've won two? Or anything like that? Or you just shifted back and forth?
Carol: You went back and forth, I think you went until you missed – like if you were to pick up three, and you just ended up with two, then it was the next person's turn right there.
Cathy: So, in other words, it wasn't competitive as much as it was collaborative. It wasn't like who's going to win. It was just you would take turns, doing it.
Carol: Oh, no! I think you still want to win. It was a friendly competition. It was who could be the first to pick up all six. I can’t remember whether you had to start over again when you missed or whether you started where you left off.
Cathy: I don’t remember either. I just remember playing for hours.
Sticking Your Tongue on an Icy Slide
Cathy: You talked about sticking your tongue on the cold slide. How did you get your tongue off?
Carol: Probably I just ended up pulling the skin off. And probably, it hurt! I don't know what grade it was. Maybe third grade?
Cathy: Peggy Steele was talking about getting rheumatic fever when she was five, and she had to stay flat on her back for a year. She missed a year of school. By the time Kay caught rheumatic fever, they must have had penicillin shots that they could give her. Do you remember? Did she have to lie flat on her back for a long time? Or what was involved?
Carol: I just know she was down in the Children's Hospital in Denver for over a month, and then she couldn't go to school or kindergarten. And she did have some heart damage from it. I think she maybe got a heart murmur. Through the years, the folks would say, “Well, she couldn't do this, she couldn't do that” – like she couldn't mow the lawn and we had a big back yard, and it was a push mower, so I had to do it all. So I didn't like her for that. But we got along.
Cathy: You were talking about playing jacks, and I think you're the only one that's talked about that. Do your granddaughters play jacks?
Carol: I don't know if they have started jacks. They’re playing with hula hoops.
Cathy: What's a hula hoop? Remember, we're talking about people in 2050, who won't know what a hula hoop is.
Carol: Well, it’s a large hoop made out of lightweight plastic, and then you have to wiggle your hips to make it keep going.
Cathy: And so, it goes round and round.
JACKS, JACKS, AND MORE JACKS!
Cathy: It’s so easy for us to visualize games like jacks, but in 2050, will girls even know what jacks are? How do you play jacks? What are jacks?
Carol: I see what you are saying. We had a tiny, rubber-type ball and six jacks. We had to scatter the jacks in front of us with one hand, bounce a ball and pick up one jack and place it in the left hand before the ball bounced again.
Cathy: And it was just a matter of hand-eye coordination where you’d throw out the six Jacks.
Carol: Yes, yes, yes. You’d hold them in your hand and throw them out. Sometimes they'd land close together, so it would be hard to bounce the ball, and pick up one at a time. You know, I said a little, little, tiny rubber type ball.
Cathy: So then, if they were scattered, it would be hard to pick up several at a time.
Carol: And then if you got to six, you had to be pretty fast to try to get your whole hand around all of them.
Cathy: Did they have winners and losers? Did you have scores? Or was it I won three and you, now you've won two? Or anything like that? Or you just shifted back and forth?
Carol: You went back and forth, I think you went until you missed – like if you were to pick up three, and you just ended up with two, then it was the next person's turn right there.
Cathy: So, in other words, it wasn't competitive as much as it was collaborative. It wasn't like who's going to win. It was just you would take turns, doing it.
Carol: Oh, no! I think you still want to win. It was a friendly competition. It was who could be the first to pick up all six. I can’t remember whether you had to start over again when you missed or whether you started where you left off.
Cathy: I don’t remember either. I just remember playing for hours.
Sticking Your Tongue on an Icy Slide
Cathy: You talked about sticking your tongue on the cold slide. How did you get your tongue off?
Carol: Probably I just ended up pulling the skin off. And probably, it hurt! I don't know what grade it was. Maybe third grade?
Cathy: Peggy Steele was talking about getting rheumatic fever when she was five, and she had to stay flat on her back for a year. She missed a year of school. By the time Kay caught rheumatic fever, they must have had penicillin shots that they could give her. Do you remember? Did she have to lie flat on her back for a long time? Or what was involved?
Carol: I just know she was down in the Children's Hospital in Denver for over a month, and then she couldn't go to school or kindergarten. And she did have some heart damage from it. I think she maybe got a heart murmur. Through the years, the folks would say, “Well, she couldn't do this, she couldn't do that” – like she couldn't mow the lawn and we had a big back yard, and it was a push mower, so I had to do it all. So I didn't like her for that. But we got along.
YOUTH ACTIVITIES: DECORATING GYM FOR PROM, DECORATING HOMECOMING PARADE FLOATS
Cathy: Another question: Proms? Joannie and I were talking about this the other day, about how we decorated for proms. Can you describe some of what we did to the gymnasium?
Carol: Oh, my goodness! Somehow, we lowered the ceiling and made it a fun area to dance. I remember for our Junior Prom, we had Stairway to the Stars, and we had a staircase going up to the fake ceiling and small lights that resembled stars.
Cathy: We put in a lot of work into our Junior Prom, like hours and hours. We’d go in on Saturday and Sunday and work on it, and after school.
Carol: We had to work, work, work, and even on the floats. I don't know if we had more time to do them. Because nowadays, it’s nothing like what we did. I just went to a couple of proms when my grandkids were in school. They weren't decorated like we did at all.
Cathy: Another question: Proms? Joannie and I were talking about this the other day, about how we decorated for proms. Can you describe some of what we did to the gymnasium?
Carol: Oh, my goodness! Somehow, we lowered the ceiling and made it a fun area to dance. I remember for our Junior Prom, we had Stairway to the Stars, and we had a staircase going up to the fake ceiling and small lights that resembled stars.
Cathy: We put in a lot of work into our Junior Prom, like hours and hours. We’d go in on Saturday and Sunday and work on it, and after school.
Carol: We had to work, work, work, and even on the floats. I don't know if we had more time to do them. Because nowadays, it’s nothing like what we did. I just went to a couple of proms when my grandkids were in school. They weren't decorated like we did at all.
AFTER-SCHOOL JOBS: PHONE OPERATORS GOT GOOD PAY -- FOR GIRLS
Cathy: What did you do with the telephone company? Was that a job that a lot of girls got? Notice, I didn't say boys, I know there weren’t any boy phone operators?
Carol: Yes! No, boys didn’t do it. And you know what? We never saw the public. We sat back in that back room, and we still wore dresses there – you couldn't wear pants. There were a lot of us that worked there. Mikell [Taylor Pearce, Class of ‘59] did.
Carol: Kathy Bohl, I think worked there. Yeah, it was good pay. I don’t remember what it was, but it was really good pay for a girl.
Cathy: What would you do?
Carol: You know it's hard to explain. By then, people had rotary phones, meaning you would use your finger to dial the numbers for a local call. To make a long-distance call, you’d dial O for the operator. You’d give the operator the number you wanted to call. She sat in front of a huge board with plugs and cables and holes. When someone dialed, O, our switchboard would light up by one hole. We’d plug the cable into the lighted hole and say, “Operator, what number do you want?” Then take another cable and plug it into an empty hole and dial the number they wanted. This connected the two parties.
I thought it was a job that would last for years. That if I wanted to take a break to get married and have kids, that job would be there for me when I wanted to go back to it. But eventually they got rid of the operators. Everything became high-tech. Long-distance calls then were very expensive. You were changed by distance and by time. Distance has nothing to do with anything now with calls. It’s only time, and even that’s cheap. They used to use telegraphs a lot, when people didn’t use long distance. Like when my folks got married, they sent a telegram. How times have changed.
Sheri Homer worked there, too. When we graduated, we went down to Casper. We worked there at the telephone office in Casper, and then she got married in December, and then I stayed a little bit longer and then I came back up to Worland.
Cathy: Did you start dating your husband, Jim Day, while you were still in high school?
Carol: It was after I graduated.
Cathy: Your husband had a brother in our class.
Carol: Yes, Bill. And Lynda Collins was in our class, too, and Bill and Linda married each other.
Cathy: What did you do with the telephone company? Was that a job that a lot of girls got? Notice, I didn't say boys, I know there weren’t any boy phone operators?
Carol: Yes! No, boys didn’t do it. And you know what? We never saw the public. We sat back in that back room, and we still wore dresses there – you couldn't wear pants. There were a lot of us that worked there. Mikell [Taylor Pearce, Class of ‘59] did.
Carol: Kathy Bohl, I think worked there. Yeah, it was good pay. I don’t remember what it was, but it was really good pay for a girl.
Cathy: What would you do?
Carol: You know it's hard to explain. By then, people had rotary phones, meaning you would use your finger to dial the numbers for a local call. To make a long-distance call, you’d dial O for the operator. You’d give the operator the number you wanted to call. She sat in front of a huge board with plugs and cables and holes. When someone dialed, O, our switchboard would light up by one hole. We’d plug the cable into the lighted hole and say, “Operator, what number do you want?” Then take another cable and plug it into an empty hole and dial the number they wanted. This connected the two parties.
I thought it was a job that would last for years. That if I wanted to take a break to get married and have kids, that job would be there for me when I wanted to go back to it. But eventually they got rid of the operators. Everything became high-tech. Long-distance calls then were very expensive. You were changed by distance and by time. Distance has nothing to do with anything now with calls. It’s only time, and even that’s cheap. They used to use telegraphs a lot, when people didn’t use long distance. Like when my folks got married, they sent a telegram. How times have changed.
Sheri Homer worked there, too. When we graduated, we went down to Casper. We worked there at the telephone office in Casper, and then she got married in December, and then I stayed a little bit longer and then I came back up to Worland.
Cathy: Did you start dating your husband, Jim Day, while you were still in high school?
Carol: It was after I graduated.
Cathy: Your husband had a brother in our class.
Carol: Yes, Bill. And Lynda Collins was in our class, too, and Bill and Linda married each other.
WISDOM FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS: COVID, POLITICS
Cathy: You've been through a lot in the last couple of years. During the COVID-19 pandemic, your sister Kay died from COVID complications. What do you think is some wisdom that you've learned?
Carol: You just have to stay strong. I don’t know if you would say that when you are older, you get harder, but you're able to deal with some of the stuff easier than when you were younger.
Cathy: Joyce, you’re a Ph.D psychologist who has had her own clinic. What have you learned because of all these tough experiences in the last couple of years?
Joyce: That's a really hard question, Cathy. I think that you can answer it on several different levels for each of us. Personally, I think the COVID pandemic and our own personal problems, whether they be health related or emotionally related, have been compounded enormously by the combination of the COVID pandemic and the political environment in which we are all living. Whatever one's point of view, it is stressful and difficult.
For we folks who are older, it becomes at once more significant, and then in some ways less significant. We have less life yet to live, whereas younger people have more concerns about an uncertain future, because their future stretches much further than ours does. So, I have mixed feelings about it all. Speaking for myself, I don’t have any serious physical ailments that I know of right now, and so for that I am grateful.
Cathy: You've been through a lot in the last couple of years. During the COVID-19 pandemic, your sister Kay died from COVID complications. What do you think is some wisdom that you've learned?
Carol: You just have to stay strong. I don’t know if you would say that when you are older, you get harder, but you're able to deal with some of the stuff easier than when you were younger.
Cathy: Joyce, you’re a Ph.D psychologist who has had her own clinic. What have you learned because of all these tough experiences in the last couple of years?
Joyce: That's a really hard question, Cathy. I think that you can answer it on several different levels for each of us. Personally, I think the COVID pandemic and our own personal problems, whether they be health related or emotionally related, have been compounded enormously by the combination of the COVID pandemic and the political environment in which we are all living. Whatever one's point of view, it is stressful and difficult.
For we folks who are older, it becomes at once more significant, and then in some ways less significant. We have less life yet to live, whereas younger people have more concerns about an uncertain future, because their future stretches much further than ours does. So, I have mixed feelings about it all. Speaking for myself, I don’t have any serious physical ailments that I know of right now, and so for that I am grateful.
WASHAKIE MUSEUM: THANK YOU FOR BEING INTERVIEWED
Joyce: Carol, thank you so much for all of your thoughts and remembrances for the Washakie Museum’s oral history collection.
Carol: This has been interesting and fun looking back through the years. I have grandchildren and great-grandchildren, some in Worland, and thinking about how different our lives were than theirs, it makes me feel sad in ways because we were freer and could do so much more.
Joyce: Carol, thank you so much for all of your thoughts and remembrances for the Washakie Museum’s oral history collection.
Carol: This has been interesting and fun looking back through the years. I have grandchildren and great-grandchildren, some in Worland, and thinking about how different our lives were than theirs, it makes me feel sad in ways because we were freer and could do so much more.
ADDITIONAL INTERVIEW: Wednesday, April 12, 2023
TODAY ISN’T SCARIER THAN OTHER SCARY TIMES
Cathy Healy: Let’s talk a bit more, Carol, now that you are feeling better after some surgeries. Let's talk about something that's on our minds right now. This is a time where Russia has invaded Ukraine. It's been more than a year now with terrible fighting in Europe. Where we have mass killings happening in schools and all kinds of other places in the country. It feels like our country is in a horrible shape, unlike any time prior in our history, except during the Civil War. Yet, in our lifetimes we've experienced many wars, riots, assassinations, and terrorist attacks.
The Cold War Between the West and Communist Countries
Cathy: Do you have any memories of growing up with the Cold War and how we worried about Russia maybe bombing us with atomic bombs?
Carol Woodhams Day: It seemed like when Jim and I were first married, I think we put some water and food down in the basement, so we must have been concerned.
Vietnam
Cathy: How did the draft and Vietnam impact you and Jim? Draftees didn’t get sent over there until 1965, which was what – six years after Jim had to register for the draft. All young men had to register when they turned eighteen.
Carol: He was called to take his physical exam. At that time, they did it in Great Falls, Montana, and he took a bus up there, but he didn't pass the physical. I'm thinking that it was because he had flat feet, but I'm not sure. And I was pregnant. For some reason they didn't draft men with children.
Cathy: It seems like there were lots of deferments until about 1965. That’s about the time our classmates were graduating from college and their deferments would end. But before then, back when Jim got turned down, how did he feel about not qualifying for the draft during peacetime? Was it humiliating because he wanted to go? Or how did you feel about it?
Carol: I'm not sure. His family wasn’t military, so I'm sure that he didn't feel as much as families where being in the military was part of their lives. I didn’t know people who were in the military that much.
John Kennedy Assassination
Cathy: The U.S. involvement in Vietnam was barely known and Civil Rights was just starting when John Kennedy was assassinated. Do you remember where you were and what you were doing when you heard?
Carol: I was living in California at the time, and a salesman had knocked on the door and he said, “Did you just hear the news?” And I said, “No, what was it” and he told me. I said, “Come in, let's turn the TV on.” And so, we watched it. Imagine today, inviting a stranger into your house, especially when you are home alone.
Cathy: It was so shocking!
Carol: Oh, I think so!
Cathy: And then what about when we kept having assassinations? So, there was Martin Luther King, Jr., and Bobby Kennedy.
Carol: It just seems like it was going on and on and on. We thought, “What’s the world coming to?!” Now, it’s like there are even more things happening. Then 9/11. That really was the scariest to me.
Sept. 11, 2001: Our Pearl Harbor
Cathy: How did you react with 9/11? How did you find out?
Carol: Well, it was really early in the morning because we were in California. My husband had turned the news on and saw it. Then we started getting phone calls from the neighbors and all the friends. And you know everybody started gathering at everybody's houses. We were thinking, “okay, it happened back there, now, is it gonna happen on our coast?”
We kept our kids out of school that day. All the neighbors did too – everybody did. You know, we were just scared to death. You didn’t want to leave the TV. You kept wanting to know, now what, now what.
Cathy: Oh, yes! At National Geographic, we lost a couple of popular people on staff, who were accompanying three elementary school teachers from DC, each with a student. They were flying to California on the American Airlines jet that hit the Pentagon. They were going to go to a week-long oceanography camp that Geographic was putting on with NOAA. That crash was so personal and so horrible – it was something I've never experienced before.
Carol: Yes! And we had just been in New York like three or four months before that, we even went to the top of the Twin Towers. It just really hit you, even if we didn't know anyone. It was just horrifying and you just couldn't keep from watching the TV.
Gulf War, Afghanistan-Iraq War
Cathy: Did you have children, or grandchildren, or spouses of your children and grandchildren who were involved in the Gulf War, or served in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Carol: No, I didn't, some of my kids had friends who did, and I would write letters to them. Actually, I have a cousin, who served three terms in the Vietnam War, but I wasn't really close to him.
Cathy: When they stopped the draft, wars were no longer as close to us as back when we were in our first years out of high school or college. That's when people were waiting to see what their draft number was, whether they'd have to go. My brother got called up. He said at the physical, a sergeant went through and said, You and you are gonna be in the Marines, and the drafted guys were saying, “No!” “No!” “Not me!”
Carol: Oh, I know! I think most of the guys felt that way, but some really wanted to serve and go in. There was some kid who was younger than us. What was his name? Bruce Hargaves – he as a year or two younger, and he didn't even finish school, and he joined the service when he was a junior.
And then, of course, we lost touch with [our classmate] Larry Rosenlieb. He was in the service, and I think it really affected him, because when I interviewed him for a little bit for the yearbook for our 50th reunion, Larry said that when he got back he just went to – I can't remember if he said to the mountains or to the coast. He basically hibernated for I don’t know for how many years.
Cathy: Well – it's quite a time we're in. It's quite a time we were in.
Carol: Yes! And we keep thinking, “Oh, it can't be worse.” And then it's not like old times – but yes, we did go through a lot too.
Cathy: Well - in some ways it's good that it's not like the old times. Knock on wood, we haven't had assassinations. Just!!!!! mass murders.
Carol: Horrifying. You don't want to send your kids to school.
Cathy: Here’s what is worse – we have 80 years of knowledge about how much worse things get. WAIT! Let’s stop and shift. We are all so happy and grateful that you have had your health restored, Carol. We want your great-grandkids and extended family to know you in good health. We’re glad you’re back to yourself again!
Carol: [Huge smile] Thank you.
TODAY ISN’T SCARIER THAN OTHER SCARY TIMES
Cathy Healy: Let’s talk a bit more, Carol, now that you are feeling better after some surgeries. Let's talk about something that's on our minds right now. This is a time where Russia has invaded Ukraine. It's been more than a year now with terrible fighting in Europe. Where we have mass killings happening in schools and all kinds of other places in the country. It feels like our country is in a horrible shape, unlike any time prior in our history, except during the Civil War. Yet, in our lifetimes we've experienced many wars, riots, assassinations, and terrorist attacks.
The Cold War Between the West and Communist Countries
Cathy: Do you have any memories of growing up with the Cold War and how we worried about Russia maybe bombing us with atomic bombs?
Carol Woodhams Day: It seemed like when Jim and I were first married, I think we put some water and food down in the basement, so we must have been concerned.
Vietnam
Cathy: How did the draft and Vietnam impact you and Jim? Draftees didn’t get sent over there until 1965, which was what – six years after Jim had to register for the draft. All young men had to register when they turned eighteen.
Carol: He was called to take his physical exam. At that time, they did it in Great Falls, Montana, and he took a bus up there, but he didn't pass the physical. I'm thinking that it was because he had flat feet, but I'm not sure. And I was pregnant. For some reason they didn't draft men with children.
Cathy: It seems like there were lots of deferments until about 1965. That’s about the time our classmates were graduating from college and their deferments would end. But before then, back when Jim got turned down, how did he feel about not qualifying for the draft during peacetime? Was it humiliating because he wanted to go? Or how did you feel about it?
Carol: I'm not sure. His family wasn’t military, so I'm sure that he didn't feel as much as families where being in the military was part of their lives. I didn’t know people who were in the military that much.
John Kennedy Assassination
Cathy: The U.S. involvement in Vietnam was barely known and Civil Rights was just starting when John Kennedy was assassinated. Do you remember where you were and what you were doing when you heard?
Carol: I was living in California at the time, and a salesman had knocked on the door and he said, “Did you just hear the news?” And I said, “No, what was it” and he told me. I said, “Come in, let's turn the TV on.” And so, we watched it. Imagine today, inviting a stranger into your house, especially when you are home alone.
Cathy: It was so shocking!
Carol: Oh, I think so!
Cathy: And then what about when we kept having assassinations? So, there was Martin Luther King, Jr., and Bobby Kennedy.
Carol: It just seems like it was going on and on and on. We thought, “What’s the world coming to?!” Now, it’s like there are even more things happening. Then 9/11. That really was the scariest to me.
Sept. 11, 2001: Our Pearl Harbor
Cathy: How did you react with 9/11? How did you find out?
Carol: Well, it was really early in the morning because we were in California. My husband had turned the news on and saw it. Then we started getting phone calls from the neighbors and all the friends. And you know everybody started gathering at everybody's houses. We were thinking, “okay, it happened back there, now, is it gonna happen on our coast?”
We kept our kids out of school that day. All the neighbors did too – everybody did. You know, we were just scared to death. You didn’t want to leave the TV. You kept wanting to know, now what, now what.
Cathy: Oh, yes! At National Geographic, we lost a couple of popular people on staff, who were accompanying three elementary school teachers from DC, each with a student. They were flying to California on the American Airlines jet that hit the Pentagon. They were going to go to a week-long oceanography camp that Geographic was putting on with NOAA. That crash was so personal and so horrible – it was something I've never experienced before.
Carol: Yes! And we had just been in New York like three or four months before that, we even went to the top of the Twin Towers. It just really hit you, even if we didn't know anyone. It was just horrifying and you just couldn't keep from watching the TV.
Gulf War, Afghanistan-Iraq War
Cathy: Did you have children, or grandchildren, or spouses of your children and grandchildren who were involved in the Gulf War, or served in Iraq or Afghanistan?
Carol: No, I didn't, some of my kids had friends who did, and I would write letters to them. Actually, I have a cousin, who served three terms in the Vietnam War, but I wasn't really close to him.
Cathy: When they stopped the draft, wars were no longer as close to us as back when we were in our first years out of high school or college. That's when people were waiting to see what their draft number was, whether they'd have to go. My brother got called up. He said at the physical, a sergeant went through and said, You and you are gonna be in the Marines, and the drafted guys were saying, “No!” “No!” “Not me!”
Carol: Oh, I know! I think most of the guys felt that way, but some really wanted to serve and go in. There was some kid who was younger than us. What was his name? Bruce Hargaves – he as a year or two younger, and he didn't even finish school, and he joined the service when he was a junior.
And then, of course, we lost touch with [our classmate] Larry Rosenlieb. He was in the service, and I think it really affected him, because when I interviewed him for a little bit for the yearbook for our 50th reunion, Larry said that when he got back he just went to – I can't remember if he said to the mountains or to the coast. He basically hibernated for I don’t know for how many years.
Cathy: Well – it's quite a time we're in. It's quite a time we were in.
Carol: Yes! And we keep thinking, “Oh, it can't be worse.” And then it's not like old times – but yes, we did go through a lot too.
Cathy: Well - in some ways it's good that it's not like the old times. Knock on wood, we haven't had assassinations. Just!!!!! mass murders.
Carol: Horrifying. You don't want to send your kids to school.
Cathy: Here’s what is worse – we have 80 years of knowledge about how much worse things get. WAIT! Let’s stop and shift. We are all so happy and grateful that you have had your health restored, Carol. We want your great-grandkids and extended family to know you in good health. We’re glad you’re back to yourself again!
Carol: [Huge smile] Thank you.
